WC iUniverse Special Event
Publicist Michael Kleiner ("Sophie & Me")
January 15, 2002

       “Last week, we chatted with "Sophie and Me" author Lois Young-Tulin. This week, we turned to her publicist Michael Kleiner for more details on the successful promotion of a POD (print on demand) book. WCTracey was our host. Kelly Milner Halls typed for Michael Kleiner.”

WCTracey: Tonight our guest is publicist Michael Kleiner. He guides the promotional efforts of our guest last week, Dr. Lois Young-Tulin (you can read the transcript here at www.iuniverse.com OR on AOL at keyword wcevents).  He’s here to share his promotional secrets with you...particularly promotion of POD books!  Michael, do you have a few words you’d like to say first as an introduction?

Michael Kleiner: Well, of course I’m happy to be part of a chat. In the last few months, having worked with Lois, I find this area of book promotion rather interesting. I’ve decided to start gearing my business towards doing PR and websites for authors, musicians, artists, small business, entrepreneurs. For me, it’s very interesting to come to this point because all my life, I wanted to be a writer and pursued writing. Now I’m on the other side promoting other writers.

WCTracey: Michael, that sounds like you’re concentrating on PR for creative sorts.  :)  Before we get into the nitty-gritty of promotion...the basic question has to be, what is the difference between promoting POD and “traditionally” published books?<

Michael Kleiner: Well, one of the things I said in the pre-interview was that for people who are print-on-demand authors, the image is obscure, not well known, so it’s a bigger challenge to try to promote their books.  Traditionally published books usually have marketing departments to help with promotion. POD authors have to find ways to promote their books on their own.

WCTracey: Michael, do you find you have to explain what POD is, first?

Michael Kleiner: Ocsionally, because bookstores ask who published the book. When I say iUniverse.com, their reaction is, "Is it an ebook?" I say, "Well no, it’s a real book. It’s just printed through iUniverse as a POD book." Some people shy away from POD events because they think the book won’t be easy to get for the consumer or the bookstore. They want to have their inventory, be sure everyone will be able to get the books.

WCTracey: That reminds me of explaining to everyone what AOL was, years ago.  :) Michael, would you recommend that POD authors educate bookstores, as to what POD is?

Michael Kleiner: (laughing) Yes. Or have a publicist explain it. I feel that you should let the specialists handle their specialties. Having the third party approach the bookstore or the media gives validity to the author and their work. First, you’re dealing with the challenges we described previously. Walking into a store, saying, "I have a book," they might say, "So?"  But a publicist making the same pitch will make them think, "Hey, this author hired a publicist. The book may have more weight." A publicist also knows more angles, be it for a bookstore or other media outlets. They know the angles or the ways material can be distributed. They know what support materials are needed to get a foot in the door. One of the things you get when you call a bookstore or a reporter is the request for a media kit. You should probably have the person who knows how to do that, put one together. It lends credibility to your effort. And as Lois mentioned last week, having a PR professional allows her more time to do her writing, rather than struggling to toot her own horn. It’s better to have someone like me do the follow up and the nitty gritty -- to be able to follow-up on leads, make the phone calls, come up with ideas so you can concentrate on your specialty, writing.

WCTracey: Michael, we have writers in our audience doing all levels of promotion ... from fledgling marketers to folks like Lois. This is the perfect time to ask what does a publicist do, exactly, and what can an author expect when they approach you about promotion? 

Michael Kleiner: A publicist, in my case, does PR and website design because it’s a very good combination. A web site is a PR tool, so you get consistency with your message. Other publicists do many things. IN some cases, just publicity. For Lois, I do publicity and public appearances. Publicity means getting reviews, articles in the newspapers. Public appearances means I arrange for Lois to participate in the right programs for her books and help come up with promotional ideas. For example, in the media kit that I developed, we had a bio and a resume, so I added an interview that covered the book and why she wrote it -- angles that made it unique. That went out as part of the media kit. That plus a cover letter to the person I might have talked on the phone makes it possible for the contact to get a feel for the author, to see what Lois was thinking about in wanting to write the book. It was interesting to read the book and see similarities between Lois and Sophie Tucker. Sophie worked in her parent’s restaurant and sang for the customers. Lois used to sing with her father after dinner every night. She used to do impersonations of Sophie as a young girl before she even knew Sophie. So I was able to create a press release that mentioned these angles for a distribution service that hit different trade publications, related publications and websites. Because of my relationship with the PR Society of America I could make use of this list. It costs money to do that, but we took the gamble.

WCTracey: A very informative answer, Michael, thank you! I think we hear or use these terms a lot, so it’s good to know what they actually mean.

Ravenbaby: What percentage do you get for your work or is it a flat fee?

Michael Kleiner: Raven, I charge hourly.

WCTracey: Michael, so you’re saying that an angle or hook is something that a publicist will look for when looking at an author’s work? 

Michael Kleiner: Yes. And I guess going back to the press release that I did about Lois, there was a very significant point in the book that changed Lois’s life. During one of her last conversations with Sophie, she asked if Lois was happy being just a housewife. She told Lois to finish her education and pursue her writing. That was a turning point in her life. She not only went back to work, she got her doctorate. That’s how I began her press release -- using how that conversation changed Lois’s life. That was part of the “fit” that I used.

WCTracey: That is one of the things that would make a reader (bookstore owner, etc.) say, “Ohhh...” that personal connection between the author and subject. Michael, what is the one thing that you’ve found in the past year that has really been a perfect promotional tool for POD authors?

Michael Kleiner: Hmmm...it depends on the book. I did a web site for Lois, which sort of in essence is an electronic media kit. It has the interview, the bio, the photo, excerpts. It also has several forms for people who want to book an appearance or interview. I can respond to those requests. It comes to me and I set up the event or the interview. Her past appearances are listed...that was an exciting tool. The interesting thing we tried to do, and it came around in an odd way, goes back to impersonations. In my earlier plan, I threw out the question, can you still do the impersonation that you did as a kid. I read about it in her book. She laughed, and said she still liked to use Sophie’s music. Then someone at the library asked if she ever thought about doing Sophie, performing. At the next event, a Barnes and Noble iUniverse author’s night, Lois was one of 13 writers participating. She was told she had a minute to do her part of the event. So she put this feather boa on, played, “Some of These Days,” and gave a famous speech Sophie was known for -- one she used to share with Lois all the time. It took the house down. Lois’s beauty salon asked her to do three days of signings as Sophie. So it came full circle. One of Lois’s memories was of Sophie taking her on her first excursion to a beautician to get a makeover. So even that was another press angle. It took two hours in make up and hair to prepare...then three ten to four work days. It was very uncomfortable for Lois, so she doesn’t do it all the time. But it was something we tried and were successful with.

WCTracey: I love the memories that someone like Sophie can bring back. Before we get back to websites, I have to ask my favorite question. What does your work space/desk look like?

Michael Kleiner: My desk? Oh boy.  (laughter). Messy. That’s an ongoing tradition. I have a file cabinet, but I have to remember to file things. I have the 2002 folders labeled, but I haven’t put them in the cabinet yet.

Hound: I’m trying to learn how Michael promotes a novelist. Does the novelist become expert on some aspect of the story?

Michael Kleiner: I would have to know what the novel was about and what makes it special. The key for any public relations idea is based on what makes the book unique, different from some other book, and what makes it similar. In writing a book proposal or query, you have to mention that to a traditional publisher. What will make this a book they can sell.  It’s the same with a publicist.

WCTracey: Michael, should a good publicist be able to pick up that ‘hook’ right away or is that something he/she should talk about with the author?

Michael Kleiner: It should be a mixture of both. Before I read “Sophie and Me,” I met with Lois on the phone. She called me.  I didn’t know who she was, but the book sounded interesting. So we met once the book came out, then she and her husband asked me for a strategy plan. So it was a mixture. And then once I read the book, I was able to pick up some of the things I mentioned before and develop a plan.

WCTracey: Michael, one more question before we get back to web sites. How long, usually, is a strategy plan for publicity? And how detailed?

Michael Kleiner: I think the one I did for Sophie was seven or eight pages. I touched on what interested me, the challenges we’d face because of the audiences Lois had identified. Then I thought of possibilities we could pursue...readings and signings. Then I had a long piece on explaining what the press release distribution service could do and how much that would cost.

WCTracey: Very interesting. Almost like part of a business plan. Getting back to web sites (one of our favorite subjects).  You mentioned that Lois’ website has forms for both interview and appearance requests. Is this something you would recommend for most/all authors’ websites?

Michael Kleiner: Yes. As I said, it’s another way of getting your message out. It’s about keeping up with the Jones’s. If the person down the block has one and you don’t, it could hurt you. Web sites and technology are reality now. So it’s important. What they say about ecommerce helping the small guy being on even ground with the big guy is true. Web sites can help do that for authors.

WCTracey: And unlike POD, the author doesn’t have to explain what a website is, but they do have to get people to go there. On another subject, how does an author know when he/she needs a publicist?

Michael Kleiner: At what point they need the publicist? Or IF they need one at all?

WCTracey: I think both.  When the appearances get overwhelming, should they think about a publicist?

Michael Kleiner: People need a publicist to get the word out. You have to GET appearances before they can start to be overwhelming. They will be easier to get if you have a publicist who knows how to make the contacts.

WCTracey: Michael, should an author look at a publicist’s past successes?  At the contacts he/she has? What’s the criteria?

Michael Kleiner: You should approach a publicist like hiring anyone else. What does his resume look like, what portfolio does he have, what kind of contacts does he have, what are his past successes? You have to be willing to pay for good work. But you don’t want it to be too low or too high, especially without proof of work. For example, I’m active in a local business association. We have a small office, subgroup that meets. One person a couple of months ago mentioned a cousin coming out with a CD. There was a publicist her cousin knew asking a high fee, but not telling what she’d do. So KNOW what they’ll do for you before paying the money. And know how interested they are in the product you’re selling. You’re in business because you have something to sell. 

WCTracey: Michael, what should an author NOT expect a publicist to do? 

Michael Kleiner: I don’t collect money for books. I don’t carry the CD player. : ) In other words, there should be clear guidelines set in advance. Like I said before, some only do publicity, some do publicity and appearances.

Rob: Michael, do you do everything yourself, or do you have staff or contractors that take care of the web site designing and PR material?

Michael Kleiner: I am a one-person operation. I have to do everything, including administrative work. Now that business is good, it can be a challenge because I have other clients, not just authors. I do websites, maintain the websites, do PR.

Ruby: I think our main concerns are affordability. Do you have a work as we can pay plan?

Michael Kleiner: Right now, I don’t. But I know that that’s an issue, because some authors have different resources than others.

Kazon: Can someone purchase limited help such as a press release or some other such feature due to financial limitations?

Michael Kleiner: Yeah, I can do the PR work and not the web site. I haven’t given that much thought, but it would be something to discuss or consider, sure. I would investigate it with the person you’re interested in using. Ask.

Rob: Do other PR firms offer “work as you can pay” arrangements, that you know of? Is it an option?

Michael Kleiner: I don’t know.

(Editor’s Note: Some PR agents do offer customized plans to meet individual budgets. Be sure to ASK if the publicist you’re considering does.)

WCTracey: Michael, at the risk of bringing up bad memories, has there been any completely disastrous appearance or signing that we can learn from?

Michael Kleiner: Of course there are some disappointments...things you hoped would work out that don’t. But no, not off the top of my head.

WCTracey: Michael, our time is almost up but I would like to ask you a personal question. Are your plans or dreams of writing on hold now that you’re on the publicity side of things?

Michael Kleiner: Actually that’s a very good question, because some of my writing has been put on hold. I have a manuscript myself that’s been gathering dust, even has a sequel in the making. I’ve been wanting to get published and haven’t had the time because I had to make a living. It’s difficult. With this POD and iUniverse working for Lois, maybe if I can find some time, I’ll get the book published and maybe it’ll be iUniverse that does it.

WCTracey: Hear hear!  Michael, can you tell us what your web site and contact info is?

Michael Kleiner: Absolutely. My web site is http://www.kleinerprweb.com. And my email is kleinerpr@kleinerprweb.com. I just had a logo designed and I redesigned the website in the last couple of days, so it’s got my logo up there.

WCTracey: Michael, what is the Mt. Everest, the gold mine appearance of publicity? Is it the Oprah show?

Michael Kleiner: With Lois, I would say if we could get her on Oprah, that would be the Mount Everest. In fact, I’ve been to Oprah’s site and there is a place to submit program ideas. One topic that fit Lois and Sophie was, “People Who Have Inspired You.” So I submitted the Lois and Sophie story. I haven’t heard anything, but if we could do that, it would be great.

WCTracey: It certainly would and let us know if you hear anything. Our hour is just about up, and we’re collecting the coffee cups now. Michael, is there anything you’d like to tell us that we should know?

Michael Kleiner: Will do. I could tell you about my book idea, but that might take a little while.  Goodnight. Thanks for having me. It was nice to be part of this. And maybe I’ll be hearing from some people.

WCTracey: I’m sure you will be!  And thank you for taking the time to chat with us. In addition to the people here, I know this will be one downloaded transcript! Thank you very much and keep in touch!